Vegan
Be not a cash cow, but a cashew! |
Vegan society's definition = cop out |
In recognizing that [current social conventions] are a mix of good and evil, we begin to feel that there is an onus upon us to innovate and offer better solutions, rather than merely complaining that the currently working solutions aren't good enough to suit the moral standards of our utopias.
- Veganism: the future of an illusion
Fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds |
"Saving one animal won't change the world, but it'll change the world for that one animal." |
Veganism isn't a converting game, but a win-over one. It's rainbows (sunshine) and roses over here - literally |
plant strong beats weak meat |
There's no bad beings, just bad behaviors. |
We wouldn't have or be victims in a system if we have no victim system. |
vegan food is meant to be shared. |
Livestock desertify (i.e. - destroys civilization), plants restore. |
avoid tainting the inner sanctity of one's being |
Diminished Responsibility logical fallacy: ignorance (including rational) copout for being vegan |
It takes a village to raise a vegan |
There's no shortcuts in life - because shortcuts end up with shorter lives (i.e. - a life cut short)! |
Instead of them giving us compassion against their will, let's give them compassion at ours!
Plants are space food - you're eating photons as close to the source (the sun) as you can get - so of course you're going to feel out of this world! It's electromagnetic.
Gets you operating at the speed of light.
I would rather my body be a microbiome (from a garden) than a graveyard.
- FizicalPresence - https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1adh9y5/i_was_vegetarian_for_8_years_amd_recently_decided/
Details
Veganism is meant to take place at a societal level - while the individual pursuit helps bring this about.
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My definition: Veganism is about desirably helping:
1) animals (people are included in this - as they're animals, as well as anything associated with them, like their environment) out (while avoiding harming them)
3) accomplishments survive by - celebrating, supporting, and encouraging them
1) animals (people are included in this - as they're animals, as well as anything associated with them, like their environment) out (while avoiding harming them)
- purpose - preservation and
- of - personal integrity
- types - theirs, ours
- reason - precious
- i.e. - beauty
- >>valuable
- something -> cherish
- rationale - if we can't replace it
- at least - not remove it
- rationale - if we can't replace it
- i.e. - beauty
- process - cautious approach -> situation
- through - risk aversion
- i.e. - handle - it delicately
- of - personal integrity
3) accomplishments survive by - celebrating, supporting, and encouraging them
- ->
- societal advancement
- positive-sum - celebration > inaction
- step 1 - animal justice
- improvement - nature
- -> - allow for thriving in better ways to materialize into a utopia
- step 2 - animal liberation
- societal advancement
- In the end - veganism is a deontological mindset > utilitarianism
- reason
- I had to create my own definition, because the Vegan Society's definition (the default, go-to definition for veganism) is fundamentally flawed (due to their one-sided care of only what humans do, not what animals want or need), which was only made worse by Claire Smith, working with George Gill (which she stated in one of her interviews and potentially me via investing in her company and complaining about the definition a lot to the vegan society), modifying the vegan society's definition to add the last sentence about diet - to add a utilitarianistic spin to a deontological one, which only creates confusion via a lack of consistency.
- the vegan society's definition isn't vegan!
- and is the exact issue that it complains about - exploiting/being cruel to animals for personal gain (a philosophy and lifestyle)
- animals become pawns - a symbol in the attainment of one's status
- That's probably where we both take issue probably with the vegan society's definition - because it exploits animals for our own means and ends - it takes animals as mental objects for our own personal philosophies and as a factor in living our life. It's like the vegan society's definition isn't vegan in of itself (it's the exact problem that it complains about! Exploiting and being cruel to animals for our personal gain) - it is deanimalizing, because it removes the decision making of an animal by placing it onto a human - and that's the saddest part about it.
- animals become pawns - a symbol in the attainment of one's status
- and is the exact issue that it complains about - exploiting/being cruel to animals for personal gain (a philosophy and lifestyle)
- the vegan society's definition isn't vegan!
- links
- https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/18ulfc1/comment/kfl7lr9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
- Unfortunately - because the vegan society's definition doesn't care about the livelihood of animal species nor what the animal thinks about what decisions should be made for them - as veganism only cares about our reactions - being our mindset and lifestyle actions - to what we don't like seeing - we get outcroppings like this. Unfortunately - the vegan society's definition - while having good intentions, opens up for bad consequences.
Avoiding animals means rejecting them from one's life altogether - which creates a NIMBY-like attitude towards animals of keeping them away just to not potentially hurt them and get in trouble, when in reality - that is to the detriment to the animal. The vegan society's definition is too caught up in a fantasy that just doesn't have a bearing in reality. Even though it says we avoid exploitation and cruelty and promote animal-free alternatives to the benefit of animals, it contradicts itself with saying no animals at all when it comes to food. Even if you're trying to benefit the animal - it's not truly possible when you're avoiding them at the same time.
Once you start excluding animals - you're shoving them out of life. So where they had a life, they don't have one now. See if you're helping animals live - if you accidentally bump into an animal that injures them - I feel that's much better for animals as a whole coexisting than to remove them altogether just for the off chance one of them might have something cruel happen to them like accidentally running into them where they got knocked over (but not hurt outside of being knocked over).
I feel our sensitivities towards hurting animals creates an argument from the negative logical fallacy to where we just start shunning animals from our lives altogether, thinking it helps them.
I hope that the vegan society's definition gets rewritten - so we don't end up with incomplete ideas of how to help animals to the point misunderstandings occur (like deanimalization - which can be considered fake veganism, because getting rid of all animals, while vegan in that sense, isn't vegan in terms of helping animals out). The vegan society has to realize at some point - that certain forms of exploitation and cruelty are what allows animals to be helped. We can't feel guilty that we allowed so many animals to live that the percent increase of the ability for them to experience discomfort in their living space and with us there is worth less than no animals there at all.
It's really sad the advocacy for a dead world - where there's overpromotion of killing plants and shying animals away.
Instead - I opt for animal appreciation and helping them - the way they want to be helped - by working with the animals. What's seemed as exploitation would maybe be what an animal wants - maybe they have artworks to sell and you, as a human, collect the money to pay for food for them. Under veganism - that isn't considered vegan.
I hope we can reconsider veganism to allow for universality before animals suffer under our false presumptions of what veganism is, simply because it's written in a way that just doesn't represent the entire picture of reality and what works.
There's also a lack of focus on what an animal uses (except in the part of 'promoting animal free alternatives that benefits animals) - so taking from an animal can deprive them, but the vegan society doesn't particularly focus on that unfortunately. It's a major lack of oversight on support systems for that animal.
veganism is an outcropping and manifestation of a sick world - by trying to be a stopgap to do better - only to be no better (the VS's definition is carnistic - making decisions on animal's behalves for them, idealistic - only cares about one's own passion pursuits - rather than what animals think or the damage that'll be wreaked upon in their lives from unrealistic tunnel thinking, doesn't care about lifeforms that aren't humans and animals, etc.)
but doing so is no better than the vegan society's definition of viewing the animals based on what we perceive. That's very limiting when humans are ignorant to how an animal truly feels (we're not them). Humans just aren't smart or capable enough to make these determinations - and if they're put in that position - not accurately enough to not cause potential damage to the very beings they're trying to help (think good intentions have bad consequences). As you agree - doing so places humans too high in that regard - giving them an elevated status to animals - when it's animals that're the topic and receive the impact.
So it's not about traits, but about the impact we have on them - especially from their view. However, you're right in that if we treat an animal a certain way - it's specific to their species. The golden rule just doesn't apply here - we should treat the animal how they want to be treated, not how we want to be treated (as these are a different species with different needs). Doing so would potentially entail deanimalization (which is messed up)!
For me, it's about respecting the essence of their being. The fact that they're alive and want to live should be the respect we have for them alone - to help them out (and this is yet another issues with the VS definition - that it focuses on avoidance - which involves deanimalization, rather than integration of coexistence and helping out. It tackles only one half - removing the problem, but not the other half - of support. Then we end up in situations where an animal isn't harmed - due to not being exploitative and cruel, but instead abandoned and shoved out. With neglect - it doesn't matter how much we chose not to hurt them - they're just no better off than if they were exploited, because at least they got some care and nurture. Neglecting and abandoning isn't going to help an animal survive and might leave them in a worse position. This is my worry with veganism and deanimalization in our consumption). It doesn't matter what body type they have - they have a soul underneath it all. So we should treat them as the individuals they are, rather than the traits they have.
- Unfortunately - because the vegan society's definition doesn't care about the livelihood of animal species nor what the animal thinks about what decisions should be made for them - as veganism only cares about our reactions - being our mindset and lifestyle actions - to what we don't like seeing - we get outcroppings like this. Unfortunately - the vegan society's definition - while having good intentions, opens up for bad consequences.
- https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/1706cd4/the_vegan_society_definition_of_veganism_has/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
- https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/16crnsp/on_the_definition_of_veganism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
- https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments/18ulfc1/comment/kfl7lr9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
- I had to create my own definition, because the Vegan Society's definition (the default, go-to definition for veganism) is fundamentally flawed (due to their one-sided care of only what humans do, not what animals want or need), which was only made worse by Claire Smith, working with George Gill (which she stated in one of her interviews and potentially me via investing in her company and complaining about the definition a lot to the vegan society), modifying the vegan society's definition to add the last sentence about diet - to add a utilitarianistic spin to a deontological one, which only creates confusion via a lack of consistency.
Overview
terminology
There's so much of veganism that hasn't been developed (being so new and small of a group and their developments relatively limited) - that it requires an entire vocabulary that just doesn't exist yet. Much like how technology developed its own vocabulary, eventually so will veganism - if it so chooses to go in that direction. My belief is that this process shouldn't be impeded, only encouraged and corrected wherever better can provide a better replacement.
Veganism is all psychology
Purpose - mine - ultimate freedom
Types of vegans
There's so much of veganism that hasn't been developed (being so new and small of a group and their developments relatively limited) - that it requires an entire vocabulary that just doesn't exist yet. Much like how technology developed its own vocabulary, eventually so will veganism - if it so chooses to go in that direction. My belief is that this process shouldn't be impeded, only encouraged and corrected wherever better can provide a better replacement.
- gatekeepers - non-true 'vegans' - that police who comes into veganism and who doesn't and how much or little veganism takes place, along with how veganism looks like to the rest of the population
- fake vegan - someone who says they're vegan and are intentionally not
- ex - someone eating chicken, knowing it's not vegan
- pseudo vegan - someone who thinks that veganism is a certain way, when it's not
- ex's
- trying to convert others
- when it's an individualistic endeavor
- pressure others
- one's own veganism is meant to be beneficial to others, not hurt them
- calling veganism a - movement, cause, etc.
- veganism is a philosophy
- not caring about the environment
- the environment is a part of the vegan society's definition
- only thinks about non-human animals
- exception - if someone doesn't believe humans are animals - then this would be ok
- if not - then excluding doesn't make sense
- when it's not specified in the VS's definition
- if not - then excluding doesn't make sense
- exception - if someone doesn't believe humans are animals - then this would be ok
- trying to convert others
- ex's
- fake vegan - someone who says they're vegan and are intentionally not
Veganism is all psychology
- you can advocate for anything
- so why not for what's right?
- success - roadmap > litany
Purpose - mine - ultimate freedom
- justice
- for - egalitarianism
- veganism is meant for the societal level
- it only makes a dent at the individual level
- i.e. a bandaid vs a solution
- it only makes a dent at the individual level
- i.e.
- fairness - equal treatment of animals as people have
- creating unfairness just makes laws non-functional - so injustice can go unchecked
- that would be chaotic - dysfunctional to say the least
- i.e. no double standard
- reason - <illegality
- reason - laws - req - consistency
- -> - work
- reason - laws - req - consistency
- no looking down upon others - just because of their circumstance
- instead - help out
- instead of - complaining, making the matter worse -> violence
- instead - help out
- reason - <illegality
- creating unfairness just makes laws non-functional - so injustice can go unchecked
- obligation - standing up for those who need help
- personal responsibility -> be a good citizen
- because if we - don't help each other, allow harm to the >looked down on in society
- who will be there when it's our turn
- like - Pocahantas - Colors of the Wind
- if you don't let life live
- can't learn from it
- i.e. - inspiration
- be inspired - in awe
- live in beauty
- i.e. - beauty - >, have - in this world
- for us to have
- i.e. - beauty - >, have - in this world
- live in beauty
- be inspired - in awe
- i.e. - inspiration
- can't learn from it
- if you don't let life live
- fairness - equal treatment of animals as people have
- anti-violence
- <bad, >good
- we don't need it in our lives
- like - minimalism
- but -> altruism
- <bad, >good
- utopia
- economics
- animal-helping-based (or environment - as that includes animals and people - whatever includes all 3) > exploitating
- i.e.
- optimistic altruism
- do better -> get to a point/place where we can live the life we want to live
- reason - we live in the 21st century
- i.e. - we can move away from hardship -> better
- reason - we live in the 21st century
- economics
Types of vegans
labels
- animal harm
- reductionist - <overall
- role - path
- -> - absolutist
- i.e. - it's ok if we aren't where we should - as long as we seek better - that's all that matters
- reductionists - /= reducitarians
- reductionists - going as far as possible -> eliminate animal products
- but aren't absolutists
- they don't care about details that absolutists do
- like
- they don't care about details that absolutists do
- but aren't absolutists
- reducitarians - celebrate any wins that <animal - consumption, exploitation, etc.
- they like a 40% reduction - if that's better than a 0% one
- but a reductionist wants a 90% one - and wouldn't agree with a reducitarian
- thinking they didn't go far enough
- but a reductionist wants a 90% one - and wouldn't agree with a reducitarian
- they like a 40% reduction - if that's better than a 0% one
- reductionists - going as far as possible -> eliminate animal products
- role - path
- absolutions - eliminate
- role - goal
- through - reductionism
- i.e. - perfection exists
- it's up -> us - -> go towards it - and seek it out
- isn't possible - because you can't eliminate everything
- ex's - what's inescapable for animal exploitation (that we didn't participate in - but are a part of it - a continuation)
- we live on a planet where consumption of animals exist
- so existing in it - is accepting it
- even dying - one's remains will be on such planet
- and you did exist at a time where it was happening
- so you can't escape from it being a part of your essence
- even if you didn't exist at a time it happened
- it existed at one part of time
- so it make you - who you are
- it existed at one part of time
- and you did exist at a time where it was happening
- even dying - one's remains will be on such planet
- so existing in it - is accepting it
- humans - have animal-eating ancestors
- it's built into outr bodies
- every decision we make - impacts animals
- veganism inherently is about making decisions on behalf of them
- even if the choice is for ourselves - not them
- veganism inherently is about making decisions on behalf of them
- we live on a planet where consumption of animals exist
- it does something though
- i.e. - going further than reductionists
- they care about not using fossil fuels
- because fossil fuels (except coal) - are animal products
- which to them - isn't vegan
- even though they're long dead millions of years ago
- you're still using an animal's body
- making decisions for it - without their permission
- which denies - the integrity - and essence - of their being
- which - if preserved - provides a better benefit
- of - having abundance - of them being there
- i.e. - celebration > destruction
- of - having abundance - of them being there
- which - if preserved - provides a better benefit
- you're still using an animal's body
- even though they're long dead millions of years ago
- which to them - isn't vegan
- because fossil fuels (except coal) - are animal products
- they care about not using fossil fuels
- i.e. - going further than reductionists
- ex's - what's inescapable for animal exploitation (that we didn't participate in - but are a part of it - a continuation)
- role - goal
- reductionist - <overall
- mode
- transcends
- doesn't let circumstance get in the way of achieving
- appeal to circumstance - no
- education > ignorance
- seeks -> find out -> be better
- if - not knowledge
- i.e. - capable - at moment
- if - not knowledge
- seeks -> find out -> be better
- doesn't let circumstance get in the way of achieving
- regressive
- limitation - rebounds (i.e. forces) them backwards
- gets stuck
- prefers it
- desires -> work - w/ it
- prefers it
- transcends
- focus
- mindset - fixed vs growth
- fixed - can't do
- growth - can
- can't do - unproductive
- wastes - brain space, motivation, eagerness, time, effort, etc.
- can do
- being in control
- superseding our circumstances -> living in ascended state
- that - transcends - the moment/situation
- makes - focusing on what can't be done - irrelevant
- reason - not applicable
- makes - focusing on what can't be done - irrelevant
- that - transcends - the moment/situation
- moving forward - amidst challenges
- ex - making mistakes
- fixing them - during moving along
- ex - making mistakes
- opt's
- do something correctly
- if a problem comes up - fix it
- not - do something that's not w/in one's realm
- i.e. - capabilities
- reason - only 2 options
- won't - be accomplished
- issue - mess-generating
- i.e. - living w/ consequences
- issue - mess-generating
- won't - be accomplished
- reason - only 2 options
- i.e. - capabilities
- superseding our circumstances -> living in ascended state
- being in control
- mindset - fixed vs growth
- basis
- mindset - capability
- if we can do something - we should try
- education - leads -> expansion
- of - capability
- circumstance - dodges personal responsibility
- 'defeatist determinism' - determinism used to -> to defeatism
- leads to 'why bother?' attititude
- instead - give up
- and saying 'we can't'
- due to - fatalism
- issue - intentional self-sabotage
- if you never think about doing better
- reason - rational ignorance
- you can't
- because - you never will
- issue - limiting
- self-imposed willful ignorance creates (->) ability -> make an appeal to ignorance logical fallacy
- 'convenience - measures ignorance'
- details - convenient ignorance
- ignorance - helps benefit - individual
- into - inaction
- i.e. - if you don't know something you don't have to do it
- turns -> excuse - 'I don't know how/I can't - so I won't try/can't do it'
- instead of - working hard -> do right thing -> succeed
- i.e. - if you don't know something you don't have to do it
- into - inaction
- ignorance - helps benefit - individual
- details - convenient ignorance
- 'convenience - measures ignorance'
- we must try
- if - we want -> get better
- -> - succeed
- in - life
- -> - succeed
- if - we want -> get better
- self-imposed willful ignorance creates (->) ability -> make an appeal to ignorance logical fallacy
- if you never think about doing better
- and saying 'we can't'
- rather than taking it upon oneself -> do better
- we can't let circumstances dictate our actions
- as then that leads to dependency
- i.e. - being at the whim of others
- weakness - that allows others to be in control
- of one's own fate
- when in reality it's our own
- no one else 'owns' or is in charge of us
- but us
- no one else 'owns' or is in charge of us
- when in reality it's our own
- of one's own fate
- weakness - that allows others to be in control
- i.e. - being at the whim of others
- as then that leads to dependency
- we can't let circumstances dictate our actions
- instead - give up
- leads to 'why bother?' attititude
- 'defeatist determinism' - determinism used to -> to defeatism
- mindset - capability
- effort
- -> - thinking the world is bad
- reaction - participation
- defeatist - yes
- mentality (i.e. - rationale, reason)
- it's a necessity - because it's unavoidable
- and we need to survive - w/ something
- it's a necessity - because it's unavoidable
- reason - law of unintended consequences
- life and the world is bad with issues
- because they won't go away
- just live and continue w/ it
- because they won't go away
- life and the world is bad with issues
- mindset - just the way things are
- why fight it?
- especially - if it's impossible to avoid
- we're just going to participate in it anyway
- why try to avoid the inevitable?
- we're just going to participate in it anyway
- especially - if it's impossible to avoid
- why fight it?
- mentality (i.e. - rationale, reason)
- proactive - no
- mindset
- puts foot down
- becomes the bigger person
- mentality
- just because life is bad - doesn't mean it has to be this way
- who cares about survival - if we're going in the wrong direction?
- why not focus on using what we have - but not relying on it?
- instead - constantly focus - on improvement
- i.e. - doing better
- reason - if we keep trying
- one day - we might succeed
- but we can't - if we never start
- one day - we might succeed
- reason - if we keep trying
- i.e. - doing better
- instead - constantly focus - on improvement
- why not focus on using what we have - but not relying on it?
- mindset
- defeatist - yes
- reaction - participation
- -> - thinking the world is bad
- challenge
challenges can either be seen as struggles or opportunity
- struggle
- seeing situations - w/ - either-or reasoning
- which is a fallacy
- justified by - argument from ignorance
- i.e. - defeatist
- where they feel because they don't see better
- that - automatically better doesn't exist
- which isn't true
- that - automatically better doesn't exist
- justified by - argument from ignorance
- issue - get stuck - in a rut
- which is - depression
- live with it
- until circumstance - dictates their actions
- i.e. - they live at the whim of others
- which is - an appeal -> circumstance
- leads -> contradictions
- i.e. - information cascade, special pleading
- which leads -> - gaslighting
- where - they believe it's ok to not be vegan - in certain circumstances
- ex - survival
- but shame others for not being vegan
- for their circumstances - equiv
- ex - taste
- when it might just be for their survival too
- ex - taste
- for their circumstances - equiv
- i.e. - information cascade, special pleading
- leads -> contradictions
- until circumstance - dictates their actions
- which is a fallacy
- seeing situations - w/ - either-or reasoning
- opportunity
- best (>) - -> go -> win-win situations
- where no one gets hurt
- as humans are animals
- so taking out for others - in a way that hurts oneself
- isn't vegan
- instead - only give in a way that is optimistic altruism
- i.e. - excess success
- not - where it impacts egoistic altruism
- instead - only give in a way that is optimistic altruism
- isn't vegan
- so taking out for others - in a way that hurts oneself
- in the end though
- we are responsible for our own selves
- i.e. - personal responsibility
- we can't put responsibilities on others
- reason - it's not their burden
- instead - they have their own -> worry about
- we can only help them out
- only - when we are whole (i.e. - taken care of) in our lives
- and are capable of doing so
- ex's. - have a vision
- as seen w/ - optimistic altruism
- ex's. - have a vision
- and are capable of doing so
- only - when we are whole (i.e. - taken care of) in our lives
- instead - we look at our situation
- and try to find a way out of it
- an opportunity -> follow a path
- -> - not having the issue
- i.e. - pivoting
- from there - you can lead others out of it
- because if you're stuck in a mess
- you'll >risk - for others -> be in it too
- as you have nothing better for them
- you'll >risk - for others -> be in it too
- because if you're stuck in a mess
- from there - you can lead others out of it
- i.e. - pivoting
- -> - not having the issue
- that is our burden
- that we put on ourselves
- because life put it on us
- as an opportunity - -> fix
- it's on us - -> rise above
- have the capability - -> do better
- -> - show the way
- elevate - everyday circumstances
- -> - reach utopia
- elevate - everyday circumstances
- -> - show the way
- because no else did
- so now it's on us
- we take on other's burdens
- because - others haven't done it
- they failed
- out of their - dodging responsibility
- they failed
- it's a chance - -> give > take - -> the world
- because - others haven't done it
- we take on other's burdens
- so now it's on us
- have the capability - -> do better
- it's on us - -> rise above
- as an opportunity - -> fix
- because life put it on us
- that we put on ourselves
- an opportunity -> follow a path
- and try to find a way out of it
- reason - it's not their burden
- we are responsible for our own selves
- as humans are animals
- where no one gets hurt
- best (>) - -> go -> win-win situations
- struggle
principles/tips
- People's' brains are degenerate on violence (and other bad stuff). Veganism makes it easier to spot and get away from - to move in the right direction = creating a better world through doing better (like getting away from destructive violence (as not all violence is bad, just talking about the problematic type) or anything destructive to society) by working on problems that society has until there aren't any more.
- everyone starts off as a vegan as their first environmental diet, because their bodies can't handle anything else
- so why should we ever give it anything else if that's what our bodies can't handle
- I don't believe that our bodies are able to move to other foods - as it's not meant for it
- if that's not the body we're born with
- I don't believe that our bodies are able to move to other foods - as it's not meant for it
- before
- carnivore - in womb
- vegetarian - if breastfed
- our bodies are meant to go from a parasitic, animal-based diet to a vegan one
- which is what we'd live forever on
- people just create an unnatural condition of moving onto animal products
- which causes health problems later on
- as - it's not meant to be
- which causes health problems later on
- people just create an unnatural condition of moving onto animal products
- which is what we'd live forever on
- exploiting others for personal gain without regard to the being isn't vegan
- this has nothing to do with circumstance, like personal survival situations
- nor whether or not they're dead or alive
- it just has to do with respect - for the situation
- which includes the beings in it
- it just has to do with respect - for the situation
- nor whether or not they're dead or alive
- life is hard - let's not make it harder
- on anyone
- esp - since they exist and are near you
- as that's an appeal to circumstance
- esp - since they exist and are near you
- instead - should be - elevate one past one's circumstances to not get impacted by them anymore
- if we try for the right direction in helping others out - there's a chance we can make it to a better place
- then do the same for others
- if - deserved
- everything has a time and place
- and is on a progress bar
- everything has a time and place
- if - deserved
- on anyone
- reasons
- slavery
- controlling dependence
- focusing on other's lives
- rather than one's own
- focusing on other's lives
- this has nothing to do with circumstance, like personal survival situations
- so why should we ever give it anything else if that's what our bodies can't handle
- How to start?
- secret to surviving on it - vitamin K2
- vitamin pill - naturelo
- issue - calcium <- animal sources
- followed by - barley grass powder
- raw - salt
- vitamin pill - naturelo
- find
- foods you like until you have enough to live on
- continue to find more foods continuously to never run out
- i.e. - make it - permanent
- continue to find more foods continuously to never run out
- the best motivation
- what aspect (people, planet, animals, etc.) inspires you - and probe it as far as you can
- after - find the next one (angle, aspect) and repeat!
- what aspect (people, planet, animals, etc.) inspires you - and probe it as far as you can
- foods you like until you have enough to live on
- secret to surviving on it - vitamin K2
- Continuance
- help - society
- build - utopia
- process - infrastruct -> living
- build - utopia
- oneself - post vegan -> transhuman
- i.e. - ultimate goal
- -> - get -> utopia
- reason
- altruism - egoistic -> optimistic
- post-scarcity - ultimate freedom
- i.e. - ultimate goal
- help - society
- Ancient ways - zero waste
- kitchens had windows -> gardens
- threw scraps out window
- instead of - trash, composting
- plants - grew - there
- threw scraps out window
- no - refrigerator
- instead
- soil
- roots - placed - in - soil
- during - winter
- keeps - cool
- 0 waste
- reason
- if - forget
- grows -> plant
- if - forget
- reason
- 0 waste
- keeps - cool
- later - became - root cellar
- issue - separated - from - nature
- soil - better
- issue - separated - from - nature
- during - winter
- roots - placed - in - soil
- plant
- 'nature's refrigerator'
- take as little or as much - as - you want
- rest - plant - keeps it - fresh
- avoid - overeating -> tossing
- peak - of - freshness
- no - going bad
- reasons
- seeds - use
- for - new plant
- compost
- utensils
- seeds - use
- reasons
- no - going bad
- peak - of - freshness
- soil
- instead
- kitchens had windows -> gardens
Reasons
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source - https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.iu.edu/dist/4/62/files/2017/09/fig3-1xxoud3.png
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documentation
- see Beyond Animal and Kialo tabs
- purpose
- do all the leg work - so others don't have to
- build the vegan world
- reasons
- create a world I want to live in
- starting from nothing - creating what doesn't exist
- to find out if veganism is worthwhile of an endeavor or not
- reasons
How to go vegan - steps
- 1 - capability
- see if you are able to do it - nutritionally, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc.
- if you can't - you won't be vegan trying to go vegan
- as getting injured is cruel to yourself - who is an animal
- if you can't - you won't be vegan trying to go vegan
- see if you are able to do it - nutritionally, physically, mentally, emotionally, etc.
- 2 - desire
- check your values to see if they align with veganism
- i.e. - see if you're heart's in it
- check your values to see if they align with veganism
- 3 - verification
- research veganism heavily -> make sure everything checks out
- ex - see if the food equivalents are nutritional ones
- research veganism heavily -> make sure everything checks out
- 4 - test the waters
- start adding in vegan changes and equivalents
- but w/o - changing anything else
- ex - after eating cereal - w/ real milk
- eat the replacement after
- reason - safety - risk avoidance
- ex - build up microbiome
- -> - not damage gut
- ex - build up microbiome
- ex - after eating cereal - w/ real milk
- but w/o - changing anything else
- find out what's missing and fill that in
- i.e. - knowledge gaps
- in - taste, etc.
- i.e. - knowledge gaps
- start adding in vegan changes and equivalents
- 5 - make the switch
- when - ready
- usually the body will show
- when - ready
- 6 - opt's - if shaky
- 1st - pivot - absolutist style
- if there's a vegan problem
- try to find a vegan soln
- -> - go ->
- try to find a vegan soln
- if there's a vegan problem
- 2nd - revert back -> step - where things went wrong
- examine what went wrong
- correct it from there
- move forward in the right direction
- correct it from there
- stay there - if damaged
- from - moving forward
- in - wrong direction
- heal - 1st
- -> - be in - best shape, think clearly
- -> - be able -> handle - next direction
- -> - be in - best shape, think clearly
- from - moving forward
- examine what went wrong
- 1st - pivot - absolutist style
- 7 - document - what works
- 8 - assist others - that want it
- i.e. - be a support
- if you choose -> take - it on
- disclaimer - if you ask someone -> do something
- u r responsible -> seeing it through
- not - abandoning
- any issues - they experience
- you are responsible for making up -> them
- u r responsible -> seeing it through
- disclaimer - if you ask someone -> do something
- if you choose -> take - it on
- i.e. - be a support
- 9 - expand veganism
- -> - make it
- easier
- -> - >ppl
- work
- easier
- -> - make it
My definition = helping animals
reasons
- not - focusing on negatives - to where veganism spreads negativity, rather than positivity - i.e. what can be done - i.e. what veganism gives us
- celebrate - how much people can do
- rather than - punish - not doing enough
- avoiding all animal products
- making animals' lives worse
- non-consent
- pressuring those who don't want to be vegan - to be vegan
- desirability - only if people are content and happy with their vegan decision would it make sense
- otherwise people would be frustrated if it's outside of their control
- ex - limiting environmental conditions
- <vegan's image - if people in in don't benefit
- otherwise people would be frustrated if it's outside of their control
- desirability - only if people are content and happy with their vegan decision would it make sense
- using fear tactics - like documentaries filled with violence
- pressuring those who don't want to be vegan - to be vegan
- celebrate - how much people can do
- focus - prevention
- while - cleaning up messes
- ex's
- lobbying
- changing consumer demand
- explaining what you'll buy at a business
- so they can adapt to that
- once veganism's where at a satisfactory level
- move onto next steps -> >ethics
- help - plants, etc.
- the argument from ignorance justifications (i.e. a lack of knowledge of sentience or ability to feel pain - means we can do whatever we want to them until we know better) harming plants are the ones that we've used to hurt animals (like fish and other sea life (like lobsters) can't feel pain)
- we shouldn't have our brains degenerate on violence to the point we're violent and justify it
- but instead look towards prevention
- i.e. - do no harm principle
- if we don't know about something - we should take extra care and precautions towards avoiding potential issues to anything until we know better.
- i.e. - do no harm principle
- but instead look towards prevention
- we shouldn't have our brains degenerate on violence to the point we're violent and justify it
- the argument from ignorance justifications (i.e. a lack of knowledge of sentience or ability to feel pain - means we can do whatever we want to them until we know better) harming plants are the ones that we've used to hurt animals (like fish and other sea life (like lobsters) can't feel pain)
- help - plants, etc.
- move onto next steps -> >ethics
messaging - inconsistency -> logic
Logical fallacies
Knee-jerk reactions leads to emotional lashing out at people rather than meeting them where they're at and being a support in helping them forward - by giving them what they need to meet one's own needs. If you ask for something out of someone, you need to give back in some way to incentivize giving in and providing equal effort for that effect. The work must not come from the person that's desired to be vegan unless it's something that they want.
Knee-jerk reactions leads to emotional lashing out at people rather than meeting them where they're at and being a support in helping them forward - by giving them what they need to meet one's own needs. If you ask for something out of someone, you need to give back in some way to incentivize giving in and providing equal effort for that effect. The work must not come from the person that's desired to be vegan unless it's something that they want.
Hating a person for who they are rather than their behavior doesn't move them forward. Instead it leads to knowledge gaps due to the appeal to force fallacy.
Without rational decisions, people will not think if what they're doing's making sense, but instead just act based off of reflexive, reactionary retraction. Not giving someone the ability to think, but believing veganism is an end-all, be-all to animal cruelty is catering to an either-or fallacy. The truth is that it's not be vegan or else. That because eating animals is cruel, that veganism would not or it's the only option to create this. It's just not true, because there's ways to reduce suffering that's not vegan but helps, just because someone's vegan, doesn't mean that they don't contribute to animal suffering, and it doesn't mean that there isn't better out there. All these are assumptions due to thinking that animal agriculture is so bad that everything else must be better - this is an argument from the negative fallacy.
However, we need to take a step back, because sometimes veganism could lead to more potential suffering - and because it's not visible it leads to availability bias (almost argumentum ex silentio). Just because animal agricultural suffering is visible, doesn't mean suffering from veganism isn't there. When we avoid animal products, it leads us to avoid animals and because we're not there they could be suffering and we're not doing anything about it. This would make the potential of suffering from veganism potentially much higher than what we see - because what we see is usually what we can work on. However, we must never forget and neglect to think about what we don't see - because just because we don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
animal activism - spread - ideal
where it's not about forcing a conversion of people going vegan - but rather meet them where they're at - and asking questions about what they want to do - and ask them what their thoughts are on certain directions - leading but not recommending or forcing to where you're liable and cause potential harm - which just are setbacks to veganism's image anyway and do more harm than good. Going with the flow and getting people to see something maybe they didn't think about is my approach - and I'm glad I had an influence on you to catch you just in time before anything bad happens! I feel my efforts rubbed off onto you - I'm proud of that! Humans are animals too - so we can't be cruel to them either - and regardless it's just ineffective of an approach to recommend in turn with shirking responsibility - which is just a recipe for disaster.
Optimization
Luckily there's rational people that become aware of them and work to fill them, as it's education that leads to rational decisions. This risk assessment helps us all find the best course to handle animal cruelty in a legitimate way - having openness of ideas to find the best ones to work with.
background
Helping out others is the whole reason to go vegan, especially those less fortunate that can't speak for themselves.
However, that's devoid in vegan messaging. The definition and activism (like documentaries) are usually about what not to do, rather than what to do. The message should be about the positive, not negative direction - to look forward, not back.
The Vegan Society should update their icon. There's a lot that The Vegan Society and other supposedly vegan organizations should do to update veganism and be more vegan, but aren't. The Vegan Society even participates in animal agriculture through their promotions for instance. That is why I need to set the record straight to create a more updated direction.
Another issue is where vegan food isn't really vegan. The vegan label on products can't be trusted, as they may involve:
Issues - emerge
Began Diet - the vegan trap
Without rational decisions, people will not think if what they're doing's making sense, but instead just act based off of reflexive, reactionary retraction. Not giving someone the ability to think, but believing veganism is an end-all, be-all to animal cruelty is catering to an either-or fallacy. The truth is that it's not be vegan or else. That because eating animals is cruel, that veganism would not or it's the only option to create this. It's just not true, because there's ways to reduce suffering that's not vegan but helps, just because someone's vegan, doesn't mean that they don't contribute to animal suffering, and it doesn't mean that there isn't better out there. All these are assumptions due to thinking that animal agriculture is so bad that everything else must be better - this is an argument from the negative fallacy.
However, we need to take a step back, because sometimes veganism could lead to more potential suffering - and because it's not visible it leads to availability bias (almost argumentum ex silentio). Just because animal agricultural suffering is visible, doesn't mean suffering from veganism isn't there. When we avoid animal products, it leads us to avoid animals and because we're not there they could be suffering and we're not doing anything about it. This would make the potential of suffering from veganism potentially much higher than what we see - because what we see is usually what we can work on. However, we must never forget and neglect to think about what we don't see - because just because we don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
animal activism - spread - ideal
where it's not about forcing a conversion of people going vegan - but rather meet them where they're at - and asking questions about what they want to do - and ask them what their thoughts are on certain directions - leading but not recommending or forcing to where you're liable and cause potential harm - which just are setbacks to veganism's image anyway and do more harm than good. Going with the flow and getting people to see something maybe they didn't think about is my approach - and I'm glad I had an influence on you to catch you just in time before anything bad happens! I feel my efforts rubbed off onto you - I'm proud of that! Humans are animals too - so we can't be cruel to them either - and regardless it's just ineffective of an approach to recommend in turn with shirking responsibility - which is just a recipe for disaster.
Optimization
Luckily there's rational people that become aware of them and work to fill them, as it's education that leads to rational decisions. This risk assessment helps us all find the best course to handle animal cruelty in a legitimate way - having openness of ideas to find the best ones to work with.
background
- Book - Veganism: the Future of an Illusion - Eisel Mazard
- youtube channel - reasonable vegan
Helping out others is the whole reason to go vegan, especially those less fortunate that can't speak for themselves.
However, that's devoid in vegan messaging. The definition and activism (like documentaries) are usually about what not to do, rather than what to do. The message should be about the positive, not negative direction - to look forward, not back.
The Vegan Society should update their icon. There's a lot that The Vegan Society and other supposedly vegan organizations should do to update veganism and be more vegan, but aren't. The Vegan Society even participates in animal agriculture through their promotions for instance. That is why I need to set the record straight to create a more updated direction.
Another issue is where vegan food isn't really vegan. The vegan label on products can't be trusted, as they may involve:
- animal testing
- ex - protein powders
- being a part of a non-vegan brand
- "plant-based"
- crops pollinated by farmed animals
- ex - almonds
- avoidance of care of wildlife and the entire ecosystem of nature - i.e. repercussions of one's implications
- ex - palm oil
- indirectly supports the animal industry
- ex's
- gives byproducts to them
- ex - canola oil
- animal sanctuaries, rescues, rehabilitation, etc.
- reason - is a band-aid or even helper, not a solution - i.e. prevention
- ex's
- rescues - buying animals from animal operations just supports the industry financially
- rehabilitation - removing plastic off of wildlife to put them back in the ocean doesn't stop the plastic industry from continuously pumping out products nor animals from suffering from it - including after release
- these supposed 'vegans' allow animal industries to continue to not face consequences by taking on their burdens of their waste - financially, laboriously, etc.
- instead - animal industries should be made to pay for these services, as they continue to create these situations
- what happens though is that the animal industries continue to profit off of their unethical operations while placing it on vegans to clean up any messes
- instead - animal industries should be made to pay for these services, as they continue to create these situations
- ex's
- reason - is a band-aid or even helper, not a solution - i.e. prevention
- gives byproducts to them
- ex's
- crops pollinated by farmed animals
- killing animals (like insects) by talking animals down, such as with pesticides
- unfairness of - choice, force
- etc.
Issues - emerge
- justification - non-vegan behaviors
- through stretching the idea of what's vegan or not (past what is deemed 'vegan' normally) by using:
- baseless arguments unrelated to the idea of avoiding harming animals by mentioning how little they have of a non-relevant quality (sentience, intelligence, etc.) to justify harming animals
- when in reality it doesn't matter - harm is harm
- regardless of what features they have - it's about
- what we do as humans
- letting live what wants to live
- regardless of what features they have - it's about
- ex - bivalves, cultured meat, insects, etc.
- lies are spread about bivalves lacking a nervous system
- when they clearly have one
- how can they beat a heart without one?
- why are we killing their heart? - something with a heart?
- insects - have hearts too
- how can they beat a heart without one?
- when they clearly have one
- these're all animal products
- lies are spread about bivalves lacking a nervous system
- when in reality it doesn't matter - harm is harm
- the excuses of how they hurt us or that they harm others - as a justification to hurt them back
- usually the hurt back is worse on them than us
- like if they bite us - we kill them
- ex - insects
- it's
- unjustified - because it's not equal
- unnecessary - we know better and can do better
- like prevention - through avoidance
- like not going outside - to be bitten by ants
- instead of getting angry that one's being bit - and killing them
- when it's their home too
- instead of getting angry that one's being bit - and killing them
- like not going outside - to be bitten by ants
- like prevention - through avoidance
- like if they bite us - we kill them
- it's not always their fault - and can be misconstrued as their fault when it's ours
- they're born with a different body than us
- ex - they can't just remove their claws
- that's built for fighting
- they'll try not to use it
- but if it happens - we should make accommodations by healing ourselves instead of lashing out at them
- ex - they can't just remove their claws
- we live in the home of wild animals
- yet blame them when they cause issues
- when we're the problem of being the intruder
- that they're defending against
- we just need to see the bigger picture
- and get out of their way
- instead of being hurt and blaming others for what we do wrong
- and get out of their way
- when we're the problem of being the intruder
- yet blame them when they cause issues
- they're born with a different body than us
- usually the hurt back is worse on them than us
- baseless arguments unrelated to the idea of avoiding harming animals by mentioning how little they have of a non-relevant quality (sentience, intelligence, etc.) to justify harming animals
- implementation - needs to address these
- -> - move forward to be true
- through stretching the idea of what's vegan or not (past what is deemed 'vegan' normally) by using:
- inconsistency - everyone has a different idea of what veganism is
- unfortunately - no one's right or wrong
- dilemma - 'shooting oneself in the foot'
- i.e. - gets in the way of its own success
- #1 issue - facing veganism
- is inherent - from day 1
- and why I don't believe in veganism
- is inherent - from day 1
- blocking the not-looking-vegan short-term
- prevents - long-term veganism - from emerging
- issue - keeps veganism as an 'exclusive club'
- by blocking others - through their efforts - out
- based on - different perspectives
- that - conflict - w/ each other
- based on - different perspectives
- by blocking others - through their efforts - out
Began Diet - the vegan trap
- short for - vegan believers diet
- these are vegan hopefuls that think they're being vegan
- when - they're in reality not
- they're pseudo vegans
- they fall into fallacies
- like - absence of evidence
- i.e. - thinking eating animals is so bad
- that veganism is automatically better
- when that's not entirely true
- that veganism is automatically better
- i.e. - thinking eating animals is so bad
- like - absence of evidence
- ex - thinking eating chicken's vegan
- they eat it constantly - and then wonder why there's no change in excluding exploitation and cruelty to animals
- but never look at what they're doing wrong as the problem
- they eat it constantly - and then wonder why there's no change in excluding exploitation and cruelty to animals
- when - they're in reality not
- these are vegan hopefuls that think they're being vegan
Legends - Role Models
Dr. McDougall - -> Carl Lewis
michael phelps - smoothie
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starts at 106 min's in!
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Will Bonsall
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Dr. Neil Barnard - -> Michelle Obama
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start at - 13:16
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Intersectionality
see - post-vegan diets
veganism is related to so much - that going vegan will open your mind to it all - epiphanies:
veganism is related to so much - that going vegan will open your mind to it all - epiphanies:
- transhumanism
- aerospace/astronomy
- aliens
- cosmic - intelligence, consciousness, cognition
- health
- quality of life
- i.e. - healthspan
- quality of life
- environment
- future
- dealing with - reality, truth
- discrimination
- including - bullying